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Real Social Dynamics Wiki - Working A LTR

Working A LTR

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KesaGatame: Since I'm sure many of you have a good deal of expereince in this area, I was wondering: What makes a man stay desirable and work well in an LTR? What does the AFC boyfriend do as opposed to the non-AFC boyfriend? What are some things a guy who is GOOD with women would do in a relationship that most men might not think of? What has made relationships work for you (and what hasn't)?

Ultrafine: Here is some wisdom i got out of the Book "The way of the superior man" - Let your purpose come befor your relationship - Dont change your mind just to please your woman. Though always value her opinion - Stop hoping of your woman to get easyer - Give her the gift of missing you - Praise her [I like the way you do this and that] - Dont tolerate her destructive emotions - lead her out of them - Dont analyze her, dont try to fix her, you are not her therapist - Make decisions, dont force her to make them - Let her relax in the demosntration of your direction

Nathan: How I am and in my experience...

I think Ultrafine had some great points (I started reading Deida and it made a lot of sense--maybe that's why I got bored and couldn't finish it). I did pull a lot from Ayn Rand's "The Fountainhead" though. Anyway, here's what I've found from my life. Call it from my own practical field experience and life philosophy...

I think the big keys are all laid out in being a man. Never be reactive. Move with purpose. Follow your path as your #1 priority is extremely attractive. Girls are drawn to no end to that; additionally they understand that as part of you being a man. They want that. As an emotional being she will do everything in her power on an almost daily basis to distract you from that path. These are nothing more than congruence tests and she will like/love you more for being true to yourself. Allow/encourage her to fulfill her life to be as good a woman as she is hardwired to be (Pretty important; I could write a whole article just on this one)

Lastly, give her the best sex of her life. She will ALWAYS come back for it because you give her the earth shattering emotions that she never feels normally or get anywhere else. In the end she can be as powerful outside the bedroom (CEO, president or whatever), but when she is there she KNOWS she is YOUR woman. She needs this and will always remember it (it will be in the back of her mind somewhere always).

I am personally known to be not just a great lover, but can also, when I want to, be extremely dominant. I do that not just because I love both whenever I feel it, but also feel there are times I have to show her my dominance. They want that; they want to know that you are ultimately in charge (Sometimes I will literally make her say it to me--I stumbled upon this in college where I had a pretty cute FB that I stole her virginity from. At first I did it because I didn't really care about her, it was cheesy as hell, and thought it would be hilarious. Anyway, as I was fucking her I kept telling her, "WHO'S YOUR DADDY? WHO'S YOUR DADDY?" At first she didn't quite want to, and then she did and it was all over for her. It was like a big compliance test and once she gave up all power to me she knew I was the FUCKING MAN. She had probably never known what it was truly like to feel like a woman in her life until that moment. She's probably still dreaming about me somewhere-- from what I hear anyway. Lastly, I don't go to that extreme very much, but will do it a little less degradingly now-I used to be such an asshole).

Real_World: Allow/encourage her to fulfill her life to be as good a woman as she is hardwired to be (Pretty important; I could write a whole article just on this one)

Could you elaborate on how to encourage her? Do you mean career wise? Or just encouraging to improve herself in general?

ahhh, this is difficult. I can't even say I'm the best because a long term relationship dynamic is exactly that--a dynamic.

I encourage a woman to be the best person that she she thinks she can be and how she knows she can be. You have to know women's core directives: love, family, relationships, community, and somewhat, status among peers.

The latest example is with my current playboy model gf. If i cared or wasn't strong enough she could fuck ANYBODY (and she's reminded me of this). With all the glamour and hollywood lights I got her with my realness. I showed her my core values and got her to express hers. That alone was enough to fuck her the first night. From there I haven't change. I stuck with who I am. I am working on my own life goals-ish things. I don't pressure her, but I expect her to be a certain way. I have told her her I need a strong independent women because I am tough to be with and expect a lot. I expect her to be everything a woman is--loving, caring, sweet, honest, and to follow and trust me (the latter is solely based on me as a man). I know and understand when she isn't that way then she IS or will be unhappy. She has to be redirected back to those core values at some time or she will hate you or her life (I don't want either). This is difficult guys. When she's not who I think she should be (that is if she's doing something that distracts her from who I think she should be--a joyous fulfilled woman), then I will her call her on it. No, I'm not an asshole and tell her to shut the fuck up and do something (unless that rare time when she needs it--ie. express dominance), but I will talk to her about things in an emotionally related manner. A lot of times it comes down to realness again. I will tell her or emotionally charge her to show her what is really important to her or me or us personally or as a whole. I will often just leave her alone to come back to me for guidance. She understands and knows. I do lead a lot, but I am also very loose-like because I do give her freedoms to do what she thinks is good--If I think it's not right I will again call her on it and tell her to cut it out (very easy for her). I can't tell you how many times I tell girls to stop thinking so much. It just works. blah, blah, this is too much for me to do justice to. This is just more of how I do things and I can't say I'm the best. Relationships can be hard man. I just have a lot of faith in the direction I'm going and allow her to be a part of it.............................................

"PS (side question on LTRs): How often were you in touch with your LTR durring the day? I know poeple that send like 10 texts and 2 calls a day. Some people talk every night (some people say these convos last hours, some people say they don't last hours). Some poeple call daily and just catch up a bit (few minutes, 10 maybe...) and maybe send 1 text a day outside of that.

I tend to be one of the latter, I usually make one call and maybe send a text (usually just as a reply). I try to see the girl 5 days out of the week as well, which isn't so hard because shes local but I'm busy as well.

What did YOU do and what might you recomend as general principles/concepts/tricks for this spectrum of the LTR game?"

(Thats what I [KesaGatame]sent to Nathan via PM, a very interesting topic IMHO) '

First of all I have many variations of LTRs. I even consider FBs to an extent an LTR dependent on time (unless we're just doing business-which again I could write another whole post on because these situations rarely last without them wanting more). I have different ‘girlfriends’ that I date for a while with sex--This was a newer one because for most of my life I held out on ever giving any relationship 'titles' because I always felt like they fucked up good things when you did. So, I think that’s true to being a player. You can either give many girls titles of ‘girlfriend’ or, like me, be honest and tell her that you just enjoy being with her and don’t want to change it (open ended). What I used to do through college was explain why it’s wrong to change our dynamic and how becoming strictly boyfriend-girlfriend will ruin our relationship. Titles seemed to give people entitlements that were unnecessary and only messed things up. I changed toward the end of college because of one ‘girlfriend’ though. I didn’t change for a couple years afterwards, but she was the catalyst because I didn’t forget the impression she left me. She told me, and at the time I ignored, that “some girls with low self esteem (her) need to hear that you’re her boyfriend”. What happened was I ignored her and eventually lost her so she could go fuck some players while studying abroad in Spain (I don’t really know, she suddenly just stopped talking to me before she left). The point is that ALL girls are low self esteem. If you are THE MAN, then they ALL will want more from you after a period of time no matter what (sex from the beginning a given). By her hearing you are her boyfriend VALIDATES them because relationships of all types are what they are put on this earth for. Otherwise, she will only feel like she is being used regardless of how much fun you are having together (some girls like porn stars are a more detached from sex, but really it’s not the sex that’s causing this-it’s the commitment they are giving you that they have to validate)

What’s the difference here? Well, I couldn’t change because I knew I was right. What I realized later after a few of these experiences (lots of them) was that I needed to change something. Too many girls were walking away mad. I was already extremely honest and upfront with them about how I feel, but I wasn’t empathetic enough to relate it to them and how THEY are hard wired to be. Now, I may be older (30) and less pussy crazed than when I was 20, but I was born to be and still am a player. It’s in my blood. If girls I’m hooking up with force the issue and I feel they deserve to be my boyfriend (in short, putting up with my shit for a period of time that impressed me), then I will make them my girlfriend.

Right now, I have two girls that I rotate. Two is all the time I can afford right now. I think this is best because, as Kahlil Gibran from “The Prophet” says, “Let there be spaces in your relationships”. I think that’s key and keeps things fresh and growing proportionately. If over time we find ourselves wanting to spend more and more time together to the point that we think we’ve found our ‘soul mates’ then I will know then that she’s the one. Otherwise, I do not force relationships. Like women, I pursue but do not chase. EDITED.

Getting back to your first question, sometimes I’m extensively in touch with her over a few days or a week and will be very committed. Then I will give it a break because I normally have to catch up with time consuming important things that I need to focus on. We will have short chats in between, sometimes a long one, and they will normally always text or myspace me throughout. But normally when I am focused on something I really don’t have much else time to go into long ordeals with them unless it’s important. Sometimes I won’t say a thing for a few days. Normally, just to let them know I’m not blowing them off, I will text them something like, “I was just thinking of you…” and then go back to work or whatever I’m doing (Ie. I just did that because I’ve been working on buying a new business lately). You know a lot of this is very dynamic as well. Just a lot of going with how things go. If we get a good text thing going on, I’ll stop and do that. Or if there’s something I really want to tell a girl, I’ll call her and talk about it. There’s no rules to anything. I can’t even tell you that in the beginning of relationships we start out seeing each other massively and then let things tail off. I’ve done it that way, and other times, it’s been where I fuck her the first night and I don’t see her for months afterwards. A lot of getting with a girl is just about timing for both of you. It happens.

Anyway, that’s a pretty good rough personal look at how I am and some of my evolution.

Final note: Girls with boyfriends

Another spontaneous ‘in the shower’ realization. Many girls I've dated ALREADY had boyfriends. It's like a code and we both spoke the same language. I was just doing what hot girls do all the time--dating around and see what's out there (we’re both players, but what makes me better is she never sure I am-girls always tell me how disarming/unassuming I am--we just have this amazing connection like we're best/old friends. Anyway, I’m very comfortable to be around and POOF, SHIT JUST HAPPENS HaHaHa!). They get it. That's why it's never a problem as well.

The hard part with girls with boyfriends is managing expectations. Most of the time she’s just biding her time with her lame/boring boyfriend to preserve her ego (ie. covering her bases) and more than willing to leave him. When you first meet, she will tell you-not blatantly-if she’s available or not, so this is not a matter of ethics (you guys want to be true players so I’m telling you straight). I don’t pursue unless she codes me that I’m what she’s looking for. Otherwise, I will not force ANYTHING. No need to. There’s tons of hot girls out there and I don’t need the hassle or drama. It can be a pain in the ass so I definitely do some screening of my own (normally she’s qualifying herself so much she’ll take care of that—these girls get it, come on. They’re smarter than you think! I just happen to own their playbook ).

But, when I am seeing a girl with a boyfriend while most guys will try and steal her from her boyfriend (because fuck I love her already. lol. retards), I normally won’t. I just have fun for as long as it lasts and HOPE that she’s someone I want as a full time girlfriend. Unless I know initially “I want this girl as my own”, in the meantime, I have to manage her expectations to bide my time to figure us out more (also, it can be cool to be her ‘secret’ lover-ie. ‘Unfaithful’ the movie). The reason I bide my time is because two things happen in this phase if you’re THE man (otherwise she’s probably just using you for dangerous and exciting sex) 1. she’s either gonna get attached (girls love to "fall in love" with zero buy signals from me) and only want to be with you or 2. want to know if your ‘relationship’ is going somewhere. This is funny because frequently after a period of time she’ll still somewhat want you to be monogamous while she's with her boyfriend --sheeaa right. I love this irony and they know it the minute it comes out of their mouths.

So, if she wants to be your girlfriend. She’s hot, or rather any girl, and used to getting what she wants so she’ll expect you’d jump at her ‘buy signals’. Fuck that. If I want her I’d take her and I tell her that. What many times ends up happening though is that she won’t be able to handle it and will have to stop seeing you (it goes too far against her hardwired knowledge and social conditioning—sometimes it’s just too hard of a decision because of the commitment she’s already put into her secure ‘beta-male’ provider). That doesn’t matter because if you’re a a pimp and if you truly thought she was ‘the one’ material you would have taken her after the first few meetings. These rendezvous are more short lasting. Sucks I know. I was in your girlfriend when you were busy working (I've done my time working and knew better so fuck off-haha. That’s true Secret Society shit)

Lastly, if nothing I’ve talked about makes sense to you, you can be a PUA, but you aren’t a player in my book. Period. Minus the deep psychological details, a lot of this is obvious shit to all my player friends. Fuck your morals. This is reality. Consider this a bootcamp preview of shit that I can talk about, though, that may just be me. Seriously, at the core, understand that I LOVE women and that’s why I even know what I know and can do what I do.

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